Necessary preface: The interview with Katsu Nakaji is unlike any I have done before. Initially complicated but in the end unique, surreal, and very funny. He is waiting for me on the top floor of Ronin, the one that will be his home for the series of omakase dinners that have long been a fixed stage on his calendar of multiple stops around the world. He greets me with a crazy look: a Ramones shirt, cap with visor (I assume from some baseball or basketball team but I dare not ask), patchwork jeans, maybe from Stella McCartney, some black sneakers and an Audemars Piguet watch on his left wrist. Ever-present eyeglasses that will find space initially on the nose, where in theory they should be, then resting halfway across the forehead, moving onto the cap and finally onto the table. Maybe my questions proved it?

Aiyu Wakayanagi, the Reservation Manager of Ronin, will assist me with the translation. His presence is crucial since Katsu only speaks Japanese. I understand that Japanese is a complex language, maybe one of the most articulate alongside Chinese and Arabic. But the three-way switch is going to be comical. I would ask Aiyu a question, he would translate it to Japanese for Katsu, who would then speak for a minimum of five minutes, and in the end, I would only come away with a dozen words at most. I tend to be long- winded, and I am aware from past experiences that speeches can be condensed. However, isn’t over-summarisation also considered a flaw? Regardless, I’m eventually going to realise that a warm-up is going to be essential to get into the groove.

Paola Buzzini: In your opinion, has Ronin managed to combine the tradition of Japanese food with the contemporary nature of the place, which is so cool and metropolitan? How much of Tokyo is there in this environment?

Katsu Nakaji: I know that since its conception, Ronin has been inspired by Tokyo restaurants and bars, and I find here an allegiance to Japanese culture and aesthetics. It feels like home to me now; we are on our third omakase dinner edition. The interesting thing is that people come back, so it’s possible to establish a relationship as if I were cooking at my restaurant in the city I’m based in.

PB: Since it “feels like home” to you here now, will you go to karaoke at the end of the service?

KN: I’m used to being with clients even after dinner: they often invite me and I get involved easily. We have a drink together and chat. I like to be in contact with people.

[He actually serves them food directly from his hands, so I would say that by necessity a more than intimate contact is made.]

PB: Surely you have had the opportunity to observe and interact with your customers.
What differences do you notice between Italians and Japanese?

KN: People who come to dinner at Ronin, and everywhere in the world on average, are open-minded, curious, and willing to put themselves out there, so they are all very similar. Of course, Italians’ characteristic is that they are generally very extroverted. I know them well by now and appreciate them as they come.

PB: Italians can be very exuberant, let’s say. Some people might feel uncomfortable with this attitude. Were there any episodes that made you feel uneasy?

[This is the first time I’ve seen him laugh, and I feel I’m thriving.]

KN: I love Italy. I am also in contact with the Italian community in Japan, so it is now a familiar environment for me. From the first time I visited this country, I was captivated by the friendly and welcoming atmosphere of Italy. Even during my service, I appreciate questions—even when there are too many.

PB: In this regard, I have a curiosity about the omakase service. Many people compare it to a ceremony. Do you like it to be perceived that way? Or would you prefer it to be less reverential and more spontaneous?

KN: Balance is always best; conviviality and ritual must coexist. I find the ritual in the technique of execution and the selection of ingredients based on the territory where I am. My role is that of the expert, but I cannot be just that; I have to be able to share my knowledge with others. Of course, it also takes concentration, taking pauses to taste and enjoy the moment, in silence. My craft is a bit like a sumo match. There is a performance, but the wrestlers have a story, a connection to the land that is told before the match. I try to be the wrestler in the ring during the service that not only gets the diners to eat but also narrates a world for them.

[I spontaneously have a very Italian question for him.]

PB: Do you like football?

KN: I enjoy watching it.

[Lapidary.]

PB: Your service is also considered a performance. Immediately, I make an association with art. How much does that influence the creativity and conception of your dishes?

KN: There is no specific current or artist I am inspired by. My performance is closer to the world of classical music. I feel more like a musician, a conductor giving and receiving emotions from the various elements.

PB: Have you visited any museums in Italy?

KN: Unfortunately, I’ve mostly visited art galleries because with my dog I can’t go in, and I never get separated from him. When I am in Milan, I stay in Brera, so I know the galleries in the area well. I have long wanted to see the Van Gogh exhibition but have never been able to.

[I can’t choose what to say. I could suggest that public facilities should be equipped with blah blah blah. However, I choose to simply state that it might be worth temporarily separating from one’s dog to visit Van Gogh.]

PB: Scrolling through the videos and photos of you, I noticed a certain style, a street style I would say. Do you like fashion?

KN: Yes, very much. I love colours and especially outerwear. I spend more on those. One of my favourite designers is Issey Miyake. However, I like to wander around markets, especially for vintage glasses. It is an accessory that can never be missed in my outfits.

Let’s go back to talking about cooking.

PB: Is there complete overlap between Tokyo and Milan, or are there dishes that can be prepared in Milan but not in Tokyo, and vice versa?

KN: I would say that in the West, there are limits imposed by the legality of certain ingredients, such as puffer fish, for example. In Japan, there are no issues, but here in Milan, I could never serve it. However, this is not really a problem for me because I primarily work with local ingredients. Here in Italy there is an incredible eel species of the highest quality that we can only dream of in Japan. It is only available in limited quantities and is quite expensive. I would love to have it every day. I’ve noticed that in Italy, eel is somewhat overlooked, maybe due to its appearance. Some people are still intimidated by its snake-like appearance. I always prepare it because I want to encourage everyone to try it. Italians, wake up! Its appearance should not discourage you. Mackerel is also not appreciated enough in Italy, whereas in Japan, it is highly prized.

[Perhaps I have discovered a flaw in his Italian clientele that he had not confessed before. The Italian type has little knowledge about the raw materials in his area and has phobias related to the appearance of ingredients.]

PB: What is your favourite dish or type of cuisine in the world?

KN: Rice, just rice. It’s like bread for Italian people: very versatile and simple.

[In praise of simplicity. I would say he’s giving a valuable lesson. Meanwhile, he takes off his hat, gazes into the void, and fiddles with his watch while taking a break from the tuna preparation.]

PB: Can you describe the dish you are preparing from an emotional point of view, and what makes you feel like preparing it?

KN: I really enjoy the transformation of an ingredient. The fish, tuna in this case, known by everyone as delicate and refined, is treated as if it were meat. I could almost compare it to a T-bone steak. It becomes ‘carnivorous’, sanguine, and therefore different. All of this makes me feel like an explorer.

PB: You speak only your native language, but I don’t think you have any difficulties in empathising with clients who don’t speak Japanese. Is food your “cultural mediator”?

KN: Sharing the experience helps, and body language is key. Even in Japan now, there are many tourists, so a common language is never there. Plus, today’s customer arrives already prepared and informed, so they experience the dinner fully by asking even fewer questions, more technical ones.

[I would like to close this way.]

PB: Could you briefly describe your journey as a chef?

KN: It has been a journey that began with my family business. From my 20s to 40s, I was sowing my skills, and now that I’m 60 years old, I’m unexpectedly reaping the rewards. I can confidently say I’m living the best time of my life. I encourage everyone to embrace ageing, as it brings clarity to all your questions. Trust me, the answers will come.This journey has also taught me another valuable lesson about life. After all, what is more essential to life than food?